Interviews with Ian Stuart Donaldsson
Phil Walmsley Sets the Record Straight - Skrewdriver 1976-78
The band existed as two very distinct entities, Skrewdriver Mkl evolved out of the punk
explosion that gripped Britain in 1976. The early period was all about the music, the fashion,
and four lads from the north west of England having a good time. Two years later the impetus
had gone, bad decisions had been made, key players had left and a lack of musical focus led
to their decline into a very average rock (not punk) band. They limped on into early 1980
before finally expiring. Then two years later singer Ian Stuart revived the name with totally
different personnel and the full National Front manifesto. Unfortunately the image of
Skrewdriver will be forever tarnished by the extreme political affiliations of this later
incarnation. People are entitled to their own opinions but this is not the place to debate the
rights or wrongs of Ian Stuart's politics as expressed through Skrewdriver Mk2. This is the
story of those exciting early days of 76-78.
I met up with original guitarist Phil for the first time in 26 years at the Thatched House, a pub
in the centre of Poulton that we'd frequented on many occasions in our youth. We talked for a
long time and drank far too much beer while looking back over his 15 minutes of fame with
Skrewdriver. At the end of the evening we agreed to meet up again, this time with my tape
recorder running. On 16th November 2003 we were ready to roll....
A word of explanation. Ian Stuart was the chosen stage name of Ian Stuart Donaldson. As far
as its owner was concerned the Donaldson surname wasn't really very rock 'n roll. However to
those of us who'd known him through school and on into Skrewdriver he was Don, which is
how Phil refers to him in the words that follow.
The long hot British Summer of 1976 was a musical turning point for many. Something was
stirring, initially in London but the word soon spread north. Members of Tumbling Dice, a
rather uninspiring Poulton rock band, headed for Manchester.
"Don and I, and I think the McKay twins, were at the Pistols second gig at the Lesser Free
Trade Hall, Manchester in July 76. The experience that night was above all else the catalyst
for what we did later. When I started at University in September 76 a couple of guys who I
met early on were really into the up and coming punk scene. It was with them that I started
going over to Eric's Club in Liverpool. We'd be there at every opportunity and Don would
come over at weekends and sleep on my floor. I was the only one who had a car at the time so
I had to drive everywhere. During Freshers' week at Manchester University the Stranglers
played at a dingy little club called the Squat. They caused quite a stir, they weren't a punk
band as such but they had the attitude. During this period we set about transforming what was
left of Tumbling Dice into a serious punk band, convinced we could compete with the best. "
Some sort of demo tape was needed to spread the word and hopefully win over record
company A&R men.
"We made the demo at Don's Dad's factory in Blackpool, the acoustics were terrible, a great
big draughty old warehouse, full of machinery. We didn't have any decent recording
equipment, we used Don's music centre [combined turntable, tape deck, amp etc] which had a
microphone input, it was pretty dreadful but that's all we had. We ran off a few copies and
sent them out. This must have been about November 76. We liked the New York Dolls sound,
we covered Pills which was a regular part of our set all through 1977. We did Gloria in a
similar fashion to the Eddie and the Hotrods version, and we used to do Louie Louie, we'd
also written about half a dozen songs ourselves. The originals were all written by Don and
myself really, I didn't write lyrics, apart from Better off Crazy, I'm not too sure what inspired
the lyrics to that! It was just a great guitar riff, it was the first thing I wrote in the punk vein,
rather in the style of Gloria."
Chiswick Records, based in London's Camden Town, liked the raw sound. Roger Armstrong
recalls his initial impressions.
"They sent in a tape from Blackpool with an hilarious photo of them in torn blazers and flares
standing in front of Blackpool Tower. The whole thing was so gormless and the tape such a
noise I couldn't resist. They were part of that second generation of Punks inspired by the
Pistols. I think that the motivation for signing them was a reaction against the studied arty side
of the Pistols and the Clash as projected by their management. "
Chiswick, keen to get in on the action, wrote back straight away.
"We got a letter back from Chiswick which said that they were very keen and would like to
come and see the band in action. We couldn't believe it. They were run by Ted Carroll and
Roger Armstrong both Dub liners. Ted formerly managed Thin Lizzy and he owned the Rock
On record shop in Camden Town which was a specialist record shop where you could buy
obscure and collectable records. It was a popular place, everybody who was part of the music
scene could be seen there at some time or other. Upstairs was the office they used for
Chiswick Records."
Meanwhile the man from Chiswick was boarding a train at Euston Station and heading for
northwest England. "Roger Armstrong caught the train up to Blackpool and we said we'd
meet him at the station. We wondered how we'd recognise him. We didn't have any problem
after he told us that there wouldn't be many people alighting from a train at Blackpool
wearing red winkle pickers and drainpipe jeans ! He was right. He came to the factory and
listened to us go through our stuff, and he was really impressed, I think we were all a bit taken
aback. This guy knew the Pistols, he was part of the scene in London, things we'd only read
about. It was fantastic really."
The band needed a name, so a list of possibilities was drawn up and Skrewdriver was chosen.
A more polished recording was also required so that Chiswick could assess their potential
new assets in advance of contract negotiations, and to help get them on the London gig
circuit.
"They wanted us down to record some demos at the Riverside studio in Hammersmith. We
had to do all our recording after 10.00pm, they used to book studio time overnight because it
was half the price. They put us up at a hotel in King's Cross, Grinny managed to set the fire
alarms off with a cigarette. We had the attic room with the very low ceiling and Grinny was
lying on the bed smoking and the alarm went off. Everybody, including some rather dodgy
looking characters, had to tumble out onto the street in the middle of the night. "
When not recording they were soaking up the vibrant north London atmosphere and getting to
know other Chiswick artists.
"Rock On had a stall on Camden Market at weekends. Camden Market was where everybody
used to hangout, it was where a lot of the first punk fanzines and independent records were
sold, gigs were advertised, badges, T shirts etc. It was a really good scene, when we were in
London we spent a lot of time there, especially at weekends. We'd also hang out at the record
shop talking to Roger and Ted, making plans and all that sort of thing. The lOlers had been
on Chiswick, although they'd split by then Joe Strummer was still a regular visitor to the shop.
Chiswick were also trying to sign Elvis Costello but he went to Stiff. Motorhead were signed
at the time, as were the Count Bishops with Johnny Guitar who later joined the Feelgoods,
they also had a great band called the Gorillas. We used to go to each other's gigs, if any
Chiswick band were playing we'd be there. It was just ligging but it was great, a real eye
opener at the time. "
Their first gig as Skrewdriver was actually a long way from London at Manchester
Polytechnic, Cavendish House in February 77, supporting Chiswick stablemates Little Bob
Story. "What a band they were, they did a great version of the Small Faces' All or Nothing.
We were so nervous it was unbelievable, we'd never played in front of an audience properly,
it was packed. I reckon the vast majority of the student audience had never actually seen a
punk band but it went down really well. I can't remember what we played, we just gave it our
all for about half an hour and that was it. "On a high they headed down to London to record
the first single You're So Dumb/Better Off Crazy with Roger Armstrong.
"We'd done the demos from which they chose You're So Dumb, we weren't entirely
convinced, we thought it was a bit too much of a thrash, but they were the guys in the know,
and they paid the money. We recorded the single soon after"
16th April 1977 was their London debut supporting Johnny Moped at the Roxy in Co vent
Garden. The gig was reviewed by the influential fanzine Sniffin' Glue who were impressed.
"Chiswick then offered us a deal, the terms were that we'd have to relocate, it was big
decision time. Grinny, Kev and Don quit their jobs straight away, so it all hinged on me,
basically we had to go in April or not at all. I was talked into it but in an attempt to keep my
options open I made it a condition that I had to be able to take my first year exams. If things
didn't work out I'd have something to fall back on. They agreed to that which was pretty good
really, we had to go down in April and the exams were coming up in May/June. I didn't tell
my parents, they didn't know until years later, I would ring them from London and pretend it
was Manchester. I ended up missing the last month of lectures at University, then there was a
few weeks for revision but I wasn't doing much of that!"
It was time to move to the big city, the accommodation was not exactly luxurious.
"Chiswick had this arrangement with a landlady in Tufnell Park. She owned a big Edwardian
terraced house and we had one room for the four of us. No beds, a double mattress and two
singles on the floor and barely space between them to tread, that was it! There was one
bathroom between about eight people and one horrendous kitchen. We survived on a diet of
potatoes and baked beans. The landlady was called Nora she seemed a bit unhinged at times,
she had two dogs and they weren't house trained so you had to watch where you walked! The
place was filthy. Chiswick paid the rent and they paid us a wage £15 a week, that's all we got
whatever we did. We could be recording, gigging, or anything else but we still got our £15. "
There were other interesting people at the same address.
"We met Steve Harrington (soon to be Steve Strange) shortly after he arrived from Cardiff.
He had a room in Nora's house and worked as personal manager for Generation X, whatever
that entailed. He was unique and was soon heralded as a punk fashion guru, he wasn't going to
stick around with us for long. He persuaded Don that he needed an image makeover if he was
to stand out from the crowd, and offered to take him shopping down the King's Road.
Unfortunately Don was too 'cool' to try anything on! Much of the stuff they got didn't fit or he
never wore because of adverse comment, with the exception of a pair of black leather pants.
This was the start of the Gene Vincent phase complete with dyed black hair, sideys and biker
jacket. I thought it suited his hard man image, but it didn't last for long. "
The group needed somebody to take care of the non playing side of things.
"Chiswick employed a manager, a girl called Effie, she was from Birmingham, I don't know
what her real name was, she was full of enthusiasm and energy. I think she'd been around the
punk scene since the beginning, she had an impressive list of acquaintances which included
Chris Miller aka Rat Scabies. I guess she was paid a wage by Chiswick, it was up to her to
make sure we got where we were supposed to be on time and PAs were hired and the gear
was alright. We never knew how the gigs came about, how much we were 'paid' for gigs, or
what agents they used, it was all sorted out by Chiswick and Effie. We just got our £15. "
Skrewdriver's roadie/van driver was already part of the punk scene.
"We didn't have a roadie at first, but when we started gigging quite a lot we hired a guy called
Paul Hurding. When we met him he was playing drums with Shag Nasty, a punk band from
World's End, a council estate down at the end of King's Road. They were keen but pretty dire,
they used to support X Ray Specs every Sunday night at a pub called the Man in the Moon.
On Sunday nights that was the place to go. Loads of people used to go down there, the Pistols
would occasionally be there, after the gig there'd always be a party at a flat somewhere on the
estate. We met Paul down there, he'd been at a few of our gigs, we recognised him, he had a
van, he was fed up with Shag Nasty so he came to work for us. I think he was on a wage from
Chiswick, he was only with us for a few months then he was offered the drum seat in X Ray
Specs. One week he was our roadie, next week he was off to the USA with X Ray Specs after
they signed a major record deal "
BP Hurding was drummer with X Ray Specs until they split, he was later a founder member
of ClassixNouveau who were fronted by the bald, charismatic vocalist Sal Solo and had a
sizeable hit with Guilty.
"So that was the team, the four of us, Paul and Effie. Effie was with us all the time. If the
music press were there she was in her element, the PaulMorleys and Julie Burc hills of this
world. Burc hill gave us a real slating in the NME on one occasion and Don hated her guts. "
Experiences on the London gig scene were many and varied. Although technically no great
singer, Don was beginning to build the aggressive swagger and confidence that made him a
good frontman.
"The Roxy became a regular, we played there quite a few times, that was the place to be.
Dingwalls, we did on more than one occasion. I remember the gig with the Movies, that was
pretty early, a bit of a difficult one. The Movies were a Sad Cafe type band, melodic rock,
really good musicians, fantastic gear and the place was full of their fans. I vaguely remember
doing the Oaks in Chorlton (Manchester), that was a long way to go as we were based in
London by then. We did quite a lot of gigs at the Roxy on our own, some with Sham 69, 1
remember playing there with the Models, the Cortinas, Johnny Moped. The Marquee we did
more than once, three times I think. I remember vividly doing the Marquee with Chelsea on
the day England had played Scotland at Wembley, the place was full of football supporters
and it was a really great night we just couldn't go wrong. I reckon we headlined there once
and supported a couple of times, but it was the highlight of the whole thing for me. It was just
such a nostalgic place, the dressing rooms hadn't changed they'd never painted it, it was just
covered in graffiti. It was a real buzz to play there."
Note for football aficionados, Phil was correct, 4th June 1977, Wembley, England 1
(Channon) Scotland 2 (McQueen, Dalglish). Oh dear!
A live recording exists of a June 77 gig at the Marquee, the actual date is uncertain. It's a bit
rough, probably courtesy of a mike in the audience rather than through the desk. If you can
get beyond the recording quality a tight and energetic band emerges, no doubt the result of
many evenings on the London punk circuit. Frequency of gigging was erratic, there would be
gaps of a week or two, then some sort of mini tour, four or five gigs on the trot. Some of the
support slots were with well known acts.
"We did quite a few gigs with the Damned. They were on a much bigger tour and we were
doing three dates with them in south London and then down to the coast. We did Hastings
Pier Pavilion at the height of the summer and the place was full of deckchairs! The last time
I'd been there was on holiday with my parents when I was about 14 and they let me go and see
Status Quo. The next time I was there we were playing! It was a huge pavilion and there could
only have been about 200 people there, you could see that beyond about 20 rows of people it
was just deckchairs. I used to love playing with the Damned they were great, I think we got
those gigs through Effie because of her friendship with Chris. I remember standing in the
wings at one of their gigs and what Chris Miller used to do was he'd cover his drum skins
with talcum powder and then the first beat at the start of the first number he'd just hit
everything as quick as he could and he'd just disappear in a cloud of white dust, it was a great
effect especially with a bright light behind."
As well as the London circuit there were a few provincial gigs.
"We went out to High Wycombe there was a venue there, the Greyhound? Dunstable I seem
to recall playing, and we went up to Birmingham to play at a big club called Rebecca's. That
was a bad night because we had to come off. The crowd were all tabloid punks who thought it
was cool to shower the artistes in saliva. Absolutely awful, it was like standing in a rain
storm, a horizontal rainstorm, we went on and it was just coming at us, after the first number
we just stopped. The DJ said it had to stop or we wouldn't be back, so we came back on and a
bit later a fight broke out and they'd started spitting again, somebody threw a glass at the
stage, so we had to go off again. The promoter called it off, we'd only done about four or five
numbers, but that was it so we were back in the van to London. It was a pretty grim
experience. We didn't really venture anywhere north of Birmingham until later versions of the
group. We were really concentrating on London. "
Things didn't always run smoothly and there were a few setbacks.
"Sometime around July we'd played the Roxy, all the gear had been taken out and loaded into
the van. We'd locked up and gone back inside for a drink, and when we came out the van with
all the gear was gone, never to be seen again. Chiswick had to buy us new gear, but there was
a delay with the insurance money while the claim was verified. We had a series of gigs
coming up so we had to go on the scrounge and Effie knew Paul Weller's Dad quite well. He
was managing the Jam, and she arranged for me to borrow Paul's gear for a week because
they weren't gigging at the time. I met Paul and his Dad in the Ship Inn on Wardour Street and
he gave me his Rickenbacker and Vox AC30 and off I went. Then we met a week later and I
handed it back, we had a few jars and that was that. "
Another nasty moment occurred after a gig at which Skrewdriver were supported by a new
band called the Police who were being groomed for stardom
"I think it was at the Railway in Putney, we didn't know who the support was going to be,
never did really. There were a lot of Press there, more than there would be for us, so we got
the feeling something was going on. They used all our back line, apart from the drums,
Stewart Copeland would only use his own kit. I don't particularly remember listening to what
they were doing. After the gig while we were loading up the van a nearby rock 'nroll club
was just emptying out, all these Teds were coming down the road and spotted us. The van was
surrounded and we got a right pasting. The police were soon on the scene and the Teds all ran
off, but Grinny had been knocked to the floor with a mike stand, one of those with a really
heavy metal base, it had come down on his face and before we knew it he was off in an
ambulance. We later found he'd lost several teeth and had lots of stitches."
There was even a fleeting TV appearance, if only we could get our hands on the tape.
"It was a show fronted by Janet Street- Porter, she was just an up and coming TV presenter at
the time. I think it was for Thames TV, they were doing an item on the punk scene and she
wanted to interview us at a cafe in Notting Hill. We went along and all the lights and cameras
were there, we just sat in the cafe and JSP asked the questions, this lasted about 5 minutes of
which about 20 seconds ended up in the programme. Unfortunately I was out of shot, Don,
Grinny and Kev were all on but somehow they missed me. I didn't actually say anything, as I
recall she talked about Grinny and how he lost his teeth. I never actually saw the programme.
Apparently Marc Riley (Mark Radcliffe's sidekick 'Lardy Boy') found a videotape of it and
has threatened to send it to me! "
Back in Phil's parallel universe of academia the pressure was on.
"I did my University exams, they put me on the overnight train from Euston to Manchester,
I'd take the exam in the morning and get the train back to London in the afternoon. I think the
exams lasted for about a week and a half, I don't think I slept, I think they gave me some
chemicals to keep me awake. In the end I narrowly scraped the pass mark in the exams, so at
the end of the summer if things didn't work out I had something to go back to. "
Word of Skrewdriver' s growing reputation in the capital had not gone unnoticed back home.
There was talk of a showcase gig in Blackpool, but some of the natives were restless.
"Yes, the Blackpool Council fiasco. Chiswick thought it was a great idea for us to play in
Blackpool on the bandstand in Stanley Park, it was going to be a S unday afternoon punk
festival with us headlining. Everything was arranged, then objections were raised and after
convening a special meeting it was blocked, they didn't want that kind of thing in Blackpool.
Although the festival didn't happen there was high profile coverage in the local paper the
Evening Gazette which Chiswick looked on as good publicity. We were a bit disappointed to
be honest, I think we quite fancied coming back and playing in Blackpool. That was going to
be the showcase gig. We actually didn't come back to the Fylde much that summer, just a
couple of times I think. "During the early part of the summer rehearsals were taking place in
advance of recording sessions.
"We had to get a few more songs together, we were using a rehearsal studio which was once
quite famous. Studio 51, Great Newport Street was a really happening place in the 60s, the
Stones had a residency there and all the R'nB bands from that time used to play there. It
wasn't a club any more I think it was mainly use for storage, that's where we got it together for
the album. "Sessions started in earnest during August.
"We were back at Riverside and once again it was mainly at night, the engineer was a guy
called Neil, good bloke, laid back long haired hippy type. He was very experienced which
was just as well because we were complete novices in the studio. All the songs were written
by Don and I, apart from the covers of course, but he wrote most of the lyrics. That's an
acoustic guitar on Where's it gonna end actually I think Don wrote that riff. The recording
sessions were great, it was all new and exciting, although Don would get bored because he
didn't smoke and neither did Kev so they'd go off somewhere. It was quite a time consuming
process, it would sometimes take several hours just to get the drum sound! We did a few
guitar overdubs. Most of the vocals were double tracked to give it more power which meant
that Don had to sing the same vocal exactly the same twice."
Were the band happy with the finished product?
"As a package it was a bit of a novelty record, it spun at 45rpm and lasted 26 minutes. Some
of the tracks were quite good, I'mquite happy with the part I played bearing in mind the
limitations of the time but some of the lyrics are a bit trite. I don't think we got involved
enough in the mixing, the bass sound isn't good, some of the tracks are just not charged, not
angry enough. Actually the earlier session for the single produced a much more powerful
sound. "
Not having a huge advance to work with usually meant that the quality of the equipment was
little more than average.
"It was a bit frustrating at times, we didn't use valve amps, so there wasn't that really great
Marshall sound. The Pistols' sound was fantastic, but then if you look at the gear they had
they were playing through Fender amps, Gibson Les Paul guitars, Fender Precision bass. We
were using transistor amps with 4x12 Cabinets and it was a struggle, not many people used
pedals then, so to try and get the sound you wanted you just had to overdrive your amp which
was pretty unsatisfactory."
Back out on the road things were beginning to get a bit unpleasant as the summer progressed.
"The violence was becoming a regular occurrence, Don had started knocking around with a
few people who were that way inclined. We played a gig with 999 at the Music Machine
which was also the Boomtown Rats' debut, we'd played a good set and so had 999, then
Geldof came on with long hair and posing about like Jagger. Don was getting very angry and
this guy took it upon himself to teach Geldof a lesson on Don's behalf, or that's how it was
seen. He strode up onto the stage walked straight up to Geldof and hit him hard, knocking him
over, there was blood everywhere. He then just walked off the other side of the stage and
wasn't even thrown out. He came back and stood with us ! Don was laughing and patting him
on the back. I was very uncomfortable with this, I didn't want any part of it, I think that was
perhaps the start of it. The word got round that these people were acquaintances of ours,
although in reality they were acquaintances of Don's. "
Time was almost up for Phil, disagreements over songwriting credits and the image change
were bringing things to the boiL
"I finally quit after things came to a head at Shepperton Studios. We were having a photo
session, Roger Armstrong came in and said that the album was due out soon and we needed to
sort out the publishing rights for royalties. Who wrote what? Don was adamant that I had not
had a significant input to the song writing, we argued about it and he turned to take a swipe at
me which I dodged. That was the final straw as far I as was concerned, he wanted to go down
the skinhead route, I was not happy about that at all. From his point of view I was going to
stand in his way so I think he was looking for some way to get me out. The others had agreed
to shave their heads, I was under serious pressure, their view was we were getting nowhere
and this was our new direction. Don needed to create some sort of rift to get me out and he got
what he wanted. "
The record company had to grin and bear it.
"Chiswick seemed to understand, they weren't happy with the bad image that was developing
because of our new following. They were putting money in and we needed to promote the
product but we couldn't get the gigs, so there wasn't much point in making any more records. I
think they would have been quite happy to write off the contract if they'd had the choice."
Roger Armstrong, "The original band were a great punk band, they were about as raw as it
gets. The skinhead image was a fashion thing, maybe in hindsight a bit misconceived."
Phil was replaced by Poulton hard man Ron Hartley who had played in various other local
bands.
"Ron was quickly on the scene, he looked the part, he had been a skinhead in the past and was
quite happy to be one again. There was never any hard feelings between him and me, nor
Grinny, but for a while of course to Don I was beneath contempt. I think Effie drifted off the
scene around this time, she wasn't happy with the image change and the violence. I think she
went back to Birmingham. It was all compressed into about 9 months, but I think I got the
best out of it, I didn't have to put up with the painful demise. Shortly after I left I was offered
an audition with Adam and the Ants but I wasn't really interested, I suppose it could all have
been very different but I've never regretted it. I went back to university having missed the first
four weeks of term "
AllSkrewed Up was finally released in early November 1977. Although Ron Hartley is
featured on the album sleeve the original liner notes acknowledged that Phil played all the
guitar parts. Roy Carr in the New Musical Express, the UK's most influential rock
publication, gave it the thumbs up. His closing comments were very positive. "Skrewdriver
don't need to warm up other people's leftovers because in singer Ian, these Blackpool boot-
boys have (potentially) one of the best gravel throated vocalists to emerge this year, whilst
Ron (guitar), Kev (bass) and Grinny (drums) give the listener the distinct impression that they
would be better deployed on more adventurous chords and rhythms."
"Although C his wick were a small label they had distribution and publishing deals with some
of the big companies, I'm sure EMI were one of them, so their records were sold all over the
world. I didn't get any royalties while I was with the band, the publishing hadn't been sorted
out properly, it always takes time to come through. Then every three months or so royalty
cheques and statements were sent to my Mum and Dad's address, this went on for a couple of
years until they deleted the records from the catalogue. It wasn't a fortune of course but it was
amazing to see the statistics. The statements would detail how many copies of which record
had sold in which country and what the royalty was. We sold records all over the place,
Australia, Canada, we sold a lot in Scandinavia. I think Anti Social sold about 14000 copies in
the first two weeks in the UK. "
Were there ever any indications of the future Skrewdriver political agenda?
"Our music did not have any serious political content, I don't recall Don being politically
active at the time, other than the normal sexual/racist prejudices that prevailed. There was
however, always an aggressive undercurrent with Don, ever since school He was a volatile
character, always prone to explosions of violence at the least provocation, especially after a
drink. He was great fun to be with most of the time, very generous, he would always buy you
a pint if you were skint, always back you up if you got in a sticky corner. A great pal when
your face fitted. Above all, he sought notoriety and attention, which he finally achieved."
At this point we jump forward a few months into early 1978, to a time well documented in
Mark Radcliffe's book 'Showbusiness: Diary of a Rock 'n Roll Nobody.' This is essential and
frequently hilarious reading for anybody with an earthy sense of humour, particularly if they
were in their late teens in the late 70s, and in possession of a love for the less sophisticated
hybrids of rock 'nroll. Phil and Mark first met at University in 1976 and have remained close
friends ever since.
"Don and Kev came back to Manchester at some point around January 78, 1 think the band
only limped on for a couple more months after I left. Don ended up at the flat Mark and I
rented for quite a while, he was still a skinhead which made things a bit awkward at times. He
was as nice as could be because he needed us now. We started going to gigs, he still had the
Chiswick contract, he wanted to get something together so he found this guy fromOldham, a
sort of entertainments agent, who persuaded us to reformbut with Ron on guitar and me on
bass. We needed a drummer so Mark was asked and he agreed. Very quickly the agent got us
a headline gig at a festival at Groningen in Holland. The week before the Vibrators had
headlined and the week after it was Lindisfarne!! We 'borrowed' Grinny's drumkit out of his
garage while he was away and began a week of rehearsal in a church hall in Poulton. We had
a couple of guys with a big Mercedes van and a great PA to do the sound for us over in
Holland. Apparently they used to be the singer and drummer out of Shabby Tiger, a 70s glam
rock band. Anyway it poured down all weekend, it was badly organised, it ran late, and we
were blown away by some band from Newcastle. By the time we went on the weather was
awful the sound was dire and people were drifting away. On the way back our agent was
stopped at customs and we never saw him again, the main problem was he had all the money.
The two lads out of Shabby Tiger were not happy, they just took us to the M6 and dropped us
off at the first service station. We had to hitch back."
This line up continued for a few months gigging at a variety of places in northern England and
even up to Scotland on one occasion, Dumfries I believe.
"We teamed up with Bitch who were led by ex Drones guitarist Gus Gangrene (aka Gary
Callender), with Glenn Jones also on guitar, a guy called Gabby on bass, a strange peroxide
girl singer called Charlie, and Martin Smith on drums. We did about a dozen gigs with them
At the Mayflower in Manchester I cut my left hand quite badly on a broken glass after fooling
around with Gus/Gary backstage. There was blood everywhere, I should have been stitched
really, but we were due on in 10 minutes, so I bandaged it with a towel and went on and
played. "
"We did a gig at Sutton in Ashfield which the so called promoter had failed to advertise and
nobody turned up. He paid us in beer and we all got absolutely hammered. At the end of the
night we all jammed together, Don with Glen and Gus both of Bitch on guitars, me on bass,
along with the Bitch drummer. The police turned up because of the noise and asked who was
driving the van, which was a good question as most of us were incapable of even standing up.
They drove us and the van to the nearest lay-by outside their jurisdiction and told us to stay
there until the morning. Mark and I had had enough by then and quit soon after. "
Ron Hartley was dropped soon after.
"Ron's style of playing was more rooted in the blues, he was really very good, but he didn't
really have the right style for the chord thrashing that was required. His influence was Clapton
and Page whereas mine was Townshend and Wilko Johnson, so perhaps my style was more
suited to the punk thing. "
Don was still keen to carry on though, his music was no longer punk as such, more like high
energy rock.
"Don ended up living at Sean McKay's student house in Salford. He decided it was time for a
change again and that the music scene needed a good rock band ! He rang me up and was so
enthusiastic and persuasive that I went along with it. Grinny was back on drums, Kev McKay
was on bass, I was on guitar and Chris Cummings also joined on guitar. I remember going
round to Chris' house in Blackpool with Don, we persuaded him to quit his job and join the
band! I think we did about three gigs the most memorable one being the support slot with
Motorhead at King George's Hall in Blackburn. Not long into the gig Lemmy somehow broke
his bass and borrowed Kev's. He practically wrecked that too, it was a sorry sight at the end,
covered in deep scratches from the bullet belt he always wore. We were pretty dreadful really,
the material was crap, mainly new stuff that Don had written, plus a few leftovers from earlier
times, anything that could be done in a rock vein. It all fell apart very soon. "
Thus ended Phil's final chapter with Skrewdriver. He has continued to play music, often in the
company of long time friend and well known broadcaster Mark Radcliffe whose book
documents many of Phil's post Skrewdriver musical activities.
Ian's letter from National Fronts' magazine "Nationalism Today"
issue 25, November 1984.
Dear NT,
I am writing to you in the hope that you will print my reply to a certain article by Ivan
somebody or other, which was printed in a recent edition of a magazine called Spearhead . I
checked that the magazine was not another left-wing smear mag and found that it was printed
by a small group of conservatives called the British National Party. In the article it was
suggested that a lot of NF Skinheads sniff glue. I have been a Skinhead for a long time and
have also been involved with the NF for five years, and in that time have only met one
Skinhead who associated himself with the Front who actually sniffed glue. In my opinion this
is a completely disgusting habit and should be stamped out. It is also well known that most
people who sniff glue are not Skinheads and are most definetely not associated with the NF.
It does, however, seem to me that the officials of the B.N. P. occasionally partake in a gluebag
or two because they always seem to be suffering from double or treble vision when they
describe how many people attend their meetings and marches.
Yours for the Front,
Ian Stuart,
Skrewdriver,
London W.C.
Interview with Ian Stuart of Skrewdriver. Blood & Honour
magazine issue No.l - 1987
1. There have been one or two line-up changes in Skrewdriver recently, what is the band's
latest line-up?
The band's line-up is now - Vocals & Guitar - Ian Stuart, Guitar - Martin Cross, Bass - Merv
Shields, Drums - John Burnley
2. Eighteen months have now passed since Skrewdriver's last record release, Blood And
Honour. What plans are there for new releases in the near future?
We are presently in the studios recording the White Rider L.P, and we're hoping to have that
out by October. We think that that there may also be a new compilation L.P. for Rock-o-
Rama, and maybe a Skrewdriver E.P. on a new Nationalist record label
3. Will the White Rider L.P. signal any changes in musical direction for the group. In what
ways, if any, will it differ from Blood And Honour?
White Rider will be a hard rock L.P. in the same vein as Blood And Honour, but obviously we
hope that people will consider it to be an improvement because it is every band's intention to
improve as time goes by.
4. Is the outspoken political message conveyed in your previous records to be continued with
White Rider?
Our political message will be the same, and will concentrate on the racial warrior ideal and
centre on pride, honour, honesty and loyalty. We feel that these virtues are very important as
recently we have come across certain people who consider themselves to be political soldiers
who wouldn't recognise honesty or loyalty if they came and belted them in the mouth
5. Do you feel that Skrewdriver have an important role to play in the struggle for Nationalism
in Britain?
Not so much in a one-party political role because as you know we have now left the NF.
However we will of course be working with Nationalists of any party if we consider them to
be trustworthy. We do put a political message over at our concerts and anybody who picks up
on that message should make up their own minds as to which Nationalist party they join.
6. Although we have just mentioned the struggle for Nationalism in Britain, to what extent are
Skrewdriver supported by Nationalists in other countries?
We have a lot of support from Nationalist parties all over the White world. That's all I'm
worried about because unlike certain weirdos involved in Nationalist circles, I do not consider
Black to be beautiful.
7. In which countries, other than Britain, do Skrewdriver enjoy most support?
Probably Sweden, Germany, Holland and now we seem to be having a lot of comeback from
the United States. We also get good support from Norway, Belgium, France, Italy, Finland,
Canada, Hungary, Poland, South Africa, Austria, Bavaria and Australia.
8. We have discussed future plans regarding record releases, but what plans are there for live
appearances in the near future?
There should be a big concert to launch the Blood And Honour paper, with us, Brutal Attack,
No Remorse and Sudden Impact in early September. Also there should be one on the south
coast later that month.
9. Finally, how healthy do you feel the skinhead movement is at the moment and are you
condifent about the future?
The skinhead movement is always experiencing ups and downs but the signs at the moment
seem very healthy, and I hope it stays that way.
From Blood & Honour magazine issue No.10 - 1990
As the tenth issue of B & H find its way into your eager hands, we are proud to speak to
Ian Stuart, the lead singer of the longest-serving White Pride band Skrewdriver. Ian
also founded B & H and though he has passed the paper into other hands now, he
continues to spread White Pride and patriotism amongst the White music fans
throughout the world.
B & H: Ian, after being involved in the struggle for nearly 12 years, have things improved for
Racial Nationalism?
Ian S : Well I think there have been obvious gains in certain countries. Look at France and
Germany and the beginnings of the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe. Most of Europe
seems to be doing quite well as regards to anti-Marxist movements. The only two nations who
are being left behind are U.S.A. and Britain. The reason for this as far as I am concerned is the
complete control of the media by the Zionists. Also the legal system of this country is also
more or less completely run by Zionists. The control of the media is an extremly powerful
means with which, a large percentage of the people are force- fed exactly what the Zionists
want to tell them
B & H: Do you presently support any political party?
Ian S : At the moment we are trying to get as many people as possible from all the parties
working together. At socials we invite people from the NF, the BNP, the Klan, the League of
St. George and everybody socialises and gets on. This as far as we are concerned bodes well
for the future
B & H: We've had reports that you and several other bands have recently been threatened by
certain so-called right-wingers.
Ian S : We did have a certain ex- Party, that used to exist a few years ago trying to pressure us
into becoming part of their extremly little organisation. They also tried to gain access to our
subscription lists. They were treated with the contempt they deserved and shown the door. No
one gets to see our lists, and as it happens, that was quite lucky because these particular
people's old membership lists have begun to appear in left-wing rags. So much for their
pathetic security. As far as I'm concerned people who model themselves onpassed-it
gangsters have nothing in common with people who are trying to forward the White cause.
B & H: Now that you have released your second solo LP "Slay the Beast", will you be
carrying on with Skrewdriver?
Ian S : Certainly. There was never any intention of giving up Skrewdriver. The thing is that I
write so much material that it is a way of getting songs onto Vinyl rather than just forgetting
about them. At present I have nearly completed the material for the next Skrewdriver LP
which should be out by summer. At present I think it should be called "The Strong Survive".
I'd say it was a little faster than the "Warlord" LP.
B & H: Are you ever bothered when the Left or State Agents such as Searchligt or Harrington
slander you in their publications?
Ian S : Not really, Harrington is finihsed now that its come to light who he was working with.
Searchlight is now going so over the top that its become more like a work of fantasy rather
than a political journal As an example, a recent Searchlight accused me of being an arms
dealer, a drug peddler, an acid house party organiser, a child porno grap her, plus, conspiring to
murder Patrick Harrington. That was all in one issue as well. It is funny though, how Jewish
people such as Gerry Gable are allowed to publish all these figments of their tormented
imaginations, without fear of prosecution from the press contorl people. On the other hand
when you discover the people who run the press and its control boards it's not so funny after
all.
B & H: What have been the most memorable events of 1989 for you?
Ian S : The coming down of the Berlin Wall and the inevitable reunification of the German
people. I have many good comrades and friends in Germany and I am happy for them and
congratulate them in their hour of victory. Also the crumbling of Marxism in Eastern Europe
has been great to watch as Karl Marx's perverted doctines have been toppled by national
pride.
B & H: Anything else to add ?
Ian S : Thanks to everyone who has stuck by me and the band over the last 12 years. Keep on
working for our great cause and one day we shall grasp victory. Keep strong. We will win.
IAN STUART interview, published originally in the English "Last
Chance" skinzine 1991-1992
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE WAY SOME PEOPLE PROJECT GARRY
BUS HELL AS THE WORKING CLASS HERO AND THE VOICE OF THE STREETS ?
Its hilarious, really, because no-one that was working class and stuck for the White race
would ever get a job for one of the national newspapers.
HOW DID YOU COME ABOUT THE NAME SKREWDRIVER ?
We got named Skrewdriver by the record company, because we didn't have a name at the
time.
BUT WASN'T YOUR FIRST BAND CALLED THE TUMBLING DICE ?
That was just a rock band, we did a load of rock covers, so when we did a tape more punk
style, we didn't have a name, so the record company came up with Skrewdriver.
SO HOW DID YOUR BAND FIRST GET PICKED UP BY THE RECORD COMPANIES ?
Well, we were playing a lot of pub gigs, doing the circuits, and then we went to see the Sex
Pistols in Manchester with Buzzeocks and Slaughter & The Dogs, we really enjoyed it cos we
thought that it was fresh, new sort of thing, so we did a tape more on that sort of line, sent it to
a load of record companies. We got answered by a couple of companies who said that they
were interested, but they would like to hear a more professional tape, because the one we sent
them, we recorded in a metal factory! Chiswick asked us to come down and do a session in a
studio, and we got a single deal out of that, and then once we done that single they updated
the deal to two singles and an LP.
WHY WAS YOUR THIRD SINGLE "BUILT UP, KNOCKED DOWN" RECORDED FN
MANCHESTER AND WHY WAS IT RELEASED ON THE INDIE LABEL TJM
RECORDS ?
Well, I moved to Manchester and reformed the band for a while, actually it was with the
Manchester line up that we supported Motorhead at Blackburn. We had already split from
Chiswick records so we went on a local label TJM records. We played a lot of local gigs and
got really good turn-outs. Then the gigs started to die down and we split up again.
SO WHY DID YOU LEAVE THE CHISWICK LABEL ?
Basically because they were leftwing and didn't like the way we wouldn't denounce the
skinheads.
WHAT MADE THE IMAGE OF SKREWDRIVER CHANGE FROM PUNK TO
SKINHEAD ?
Basically because we got fed up with punk turning a bit leftwing, whereas before everyone
came along and had a laugh and danced about, but then it got to the stage where it became
high fashion, and people would just stand there seeing who had the most drawing pins
through their nose. When it got to that stage it got really silly. We had all been skinheads in
the past so we all just reverted, and a lot of our mates coming to the gigs were skinheads.
IS THAT TRUE THAT YOU SUPPORTED BANDS LIKE THE POLICE AND SIOUXIE
AND THE BANSHEES IN THE EARLIER DAYS ?
When we supported the Police they were just a small band and most of the people came to see
Skrewdriver anyway. We also supported The Boomtown Rats, Siouxie, The Damned, 999,
loads of bigger bands. I can't remember all of them now.
CAN YOU TELL US THE STORY OF KING ROAD WITH THE PUNK VERSUS TED
FIGHTS, AND THE EXPERIENCES YOU HAD ?
The worst occasion was when we were playing with the Police at the Railway Hotel in
Putney, this was at the height of all of the violence between Punks and Teds. We were the last
ones out of the gig and there had just been a rock and roll disco down the road, there was only
about six of us left and we took a right hammering. Our drummer got his teeth knocked out
and everything.
CHANGING THE SUBJECT SLIGHTLY, WHAT WAS YOUR INVOLVEMENT WITH
THE MADNESS FILM "TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT", ALSO CAN YOU TELL US THE
STORY BEHIND THE MUCH REPORTED FRIENDSHIP WITH SUGGS Y ?
Suggsy used to be the roadie for Skrewdriver back in 1978 and I went back down to London
for a while and stayed at this mothers flat cos he'd moved out of his room and bought a house
so I had his room I was only there for about seven months, that was basically it, the picture
was taken in his mums front room. The Madness film was done in about 1981 or something
like that, anyway because I didn't have much money at the time, they just got me on the film,
that's all. I got the agency fee which was about £60 or something, and that's why I was in the
film.
ARE YOU STILL IN CONTACT WITH SUGGSY, WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THAT
YOU HEARD FROM HIM ?
No, I'm not in contact, not since the article in the Sun newspaper, I didn't try and contact him
and he didn't try and contact me, which is fair enough, he's got to make a living and if he's
mixing with a nationalist he is gonna find it hard to make a living. We didn't fall out or
anything like that and as far as I know we were still on good terms with eachother, I've got
nothing against the bloke, he's done me a lot favours in the past. He's just trying to make a
living. If he wants to make a living like that, its up to him. I've got no intention of slagging
him off, and why should I ?
WHAT MADE YOU TURN THE BAND POLITICAL, AS IN THE EARLY DAYS YOU
KEPT OUT OF POLITICS, DID YOU JUST GET UP ONE MORNFNG AND SAY "OH
F*CK IT", AND WENT FOR IT, OR WAS IT A GRADUAL CHANGE ?
I wasn't really political at all to be honest, I didn't like blacks, because I'd never seen one till
I went down London, and there I met lots, and they all seemed to have a chip on their
shoulder, I didn't like the lefties funny enough, because they all reminded me of student being
all anti- British and that put me off them. Most of our mates that came to our gigs were
political, they were either NF (National Front - Club28 addition) or BM (British Movement -
Club28 addition) and in the end what happened was the press ordered us along with Sham 69
to denounce those people in the audience, or get banned. We refused and Sham 69 said OK.
So Sham 69 became very big and we got banned from everywhere, they banned all of our
adverts from the music papers and everything. All this was in 1977.
ARE YOU STILL IN TOUCH WITH ANY OF THE ORIGINAL MEMBERS AT ALL?
Yeah, I went back to Blackpool a couple of months back and bumped into the old guitarist
and drummer. They still know that Skrewdriver are still going, and the drummer still buys the
records. They're good blokes and are doing quite well for themselves now. Ron's a bit of an
alcoholic, good guitarist though. He's onthe front cover of the All Skrewed Up LP although
he didn't actually play on it. Our original guitarist Phil actually played on the LP.
WHAT IS YOUR ALL TIME FAVOURITE SONG, OUT OF THE HUNDREDS THAT
YOU HAVE DONE ?
Well, it changes from time to time, you go off songs. I've always liked "I Can See The Fire",
on the "White Rider" LP. I keep thinking about playing it live, but I think that it might be a
little bit too slow for a gig. Another one of my favourite songs that we have done more
recently is "Freedom What Freedom", not the Skrewdriver versionbut the one on the latest
Klansmen LP. At the moment, they're the main ones.
WHAT ABOUT THE OLDER SONGS, DO YOU STILL LIKE LISTENING TO THEM ?
I like "Tomorrow Belongs To Me", I've gone off the tunes a little bit, I've been playing them
for such a long time, I like the lyrics especially, I think that they're brilliant lyrics. Obviously
'White Power", "Free My Land", I've played them so many times that I don't really listen to
them at home anymore.
IS THERE ANY SONGS THAT YOU WISHED YOU HAD WRITTEN, WHEN YOU
HEARD THEM BY SOMEONE ELSE ?
Yes, I would like to have written "England" by the Angelic Upstarts, I can't believe that
Mensi wrote it as he is such a left wing prat. He used to be nationalist until he realized that he
could make more money being a leftwing. (Ian then proceeded to amuse us with some stories
he's heard about Mensi).
IS THERE ANY GIGS OUT OF THE HUNDREDS THAT YOU'VE PLAYED THAT
STICK IN YOUR MIND AS THE BEST, WORST ?
Well, we played the Vortex twice, they were quite good. It was the first time that a lot of
skinheads turned up, one of those was with Siouxie And The Banshees. We played two or
three gigs at the Roxy and broke the house records, we had the most people there, they were
brilliant gigs. And then, what turned out to be the main event, but got called off, but we
maganed to squeeze about six or seven hundred people in a two hundred seated pub, now that
was a good gig basically due to the satisfaction of getting something on, despite the fact that
everything was stacked against us. To me now, any gig that goes ahead is a good gig because
it's such a battle to get a gig on that when we do it, it's great. Another good gig was the one in
Newcastle a couple of years ago where there were six bands playing. We've also recently
played in Italy and that was a brilliant gig, really well organized.
YOU LIVED IN LONDON FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS, BUT WHY DID YOU DECIDE
TO LEAVE ?
Basically because it was getting that there wasn't very many places to drink where everybody
can mix. It got to the stage where the leftwing followed me around every pub I went to. They
tried to get me banned from my cafe by picketing, but the cafe wouldnt ban me, although the
pubs were different. I used to go into a pub and I'd only be drinking there for about a week
and then the reds would start to hassel the landlord and then picket the pub, so obviously I got
banned. All this was happening, and also the fact that there was lite rally nowhere where we
could meet and have a drink. Also everytime there was a leftwing march in London, they used
to visit my house, plus I was getting demonstrations outside of my house every three to four
weeks. The police always informed me that if I came out out of my house while they were
there I would be nicked for inciting them to cause violence. But the main reason for leaving
London was because the police harassment. One day, a load of BNP supporters were attacked
by IRA supporters. The police arrived on the scene and took all of the BNP supporters' names
and numbers, they went around to their houses later on and asked them if they would testify in
court to get their attackers charged. The only problem was that the police had made a mistake
and thought that they were the IRA supporters. I was tipped off by these BNP people that they
should say they saw me causing all of the trouble. Basically, if they hadn't got the IRA and
the BNP muddled up they might have got away with the frame up. It was the same when a
gay got stabbed a few years ago at Kings Cross. I had nothing to do with the stabbing, I was
around the corner when it was supposed to have happened. But I was still slammed in
Wormwodd Scrubs for two and half months until they decided that they hadn't got any
evidence. So I thought that if this is what's gonna happen every time anything happens in
London and I'm gonna get stiched up for things, I mean, it was time to go. I wasn't too
bothered about the commies because they were arse holes, it's when the police started to try to
stich me up. There's not a great deal that you can do.
YOU WERE ACTUALLY IN PRISON SERVING A TWELVE MONTH SENTENCE,
WHAT'S THE STORY BEHIND THAT ?
Well, we were attacked by a mob of blacks after Searchlight had been giving out leaflets with
my face, my address, where I drink on them, we used to get trouble most weekends from
gangs of blacks going past my house on the way home from collage, and one particular night
we got attacked by about eight or nine of them, we fought back, the police arrived and we got
arrested. The blacks didn't even turn up at court for three days in a row and the police had to
go out and bring them to the court. Searchlight has tried to smear me on several occasions,
I've been called several things in their pages, child porno grap her, arms delaer, conspiring to
murder Patrick Harrington (one time National Front/White Noise frontman - Club28
addition), a drug pusher and an acid home party organiser. I've even been accused of printing
Swedish nationalist magazines. God knows where I keep this printing press, under my bed
probably! I can't even understand one word of Swedish! I must be a busy man!
YOU ARE THE FOUNDER OF BLOOD AND HONOUR, DO YOU THINK THAT IT
HAS BEEN A SUCCESS AND WHAT DO YOU SEE HAS BEEN ACHIEVED BY
BLOOD AND HONOUR ?
Blood And Honour has took off so well because of its idea. There has been no other magazine
that promotes the advancement of the White race and that does not tie itself to any political
party. B&H is not tied to any party, it is mainly run by the bands. The bands are popular so
the magazine is popular. Its main achievement has been to get more people involved in the
White cause and to push the music of the bands over to a lot more people than would be
possible otherwise. Food for thought, that Blood And Honour has got at least five times the
circulation of Searchlight. That's a fact.
WHAT ADVISE WOULD YOU GIVE TO ANYONE OUT THERE THAT IS THINKING
OF STARTING A NATIONALIST BAND?
Don't start unless you're willing to accept a hell of a lot harassment and a lot of hard work to
get anywhere. You've got to be very dedicated to do it. If you want to make money, just
forget it, sing like Englebert Humperdink or get interviewed by Terry Wogan.
HAS THE RECENT PROBLEMS WITH SKREWDRIVER IN GERMANY DETERRED
YOU FROM PLAYING THERE AGAIN ?
I don't know about the rest of the band but me personally, it made me want to go out there
and cause a lot more trouble. The way that I see it is that Skrewdriver are being made
scapegoats for the fact that the German government have brought too many immigrants into
the country. So if we have had anything to do with waking German feeling up, all the better
for it. Although I do not think it has got anything to do with us. It's just the German people
rising against the influx of immigrants and I wish that the British people would do the same.
DO YOU THINK THAT PERHAPS SKREWDRIVER WAS THE CATALYST FOR ALL
OF THE TROUBLE IN GERMANY ?
No, not at all, it started before we played over there, I think that it may have been aggravated
a little bit by the fact that the police kept them all in prison, obviously I was still out which
was a bad mistake on the police's side. Cos I was able to go to the gig and tell everybody
what had happened, and after the gig obviously there was some trouble with the police.
WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO SING ONE SONG IN GERMAN ON YOUR LATEST LP ?
("Stolz" on "Freedom what freedom" album - Club28 addition)
Basically, we sell more records in Germany than anywhere else. As the Germans support us
and give us so much support, I thought that it was about time we done something in German
for them. I wrote the song in English, I got a German lad to translate it, put it on a tape for me
so I could hear the accents and pronounciations and done it from that. Also Germany has
probably got the biggest growing skinhead scene in Europe, and German people have stood
by the band almost as long as the English have. We've been on a German record label since
1982. It's a lot easier for Germans to obtain our records in Germany too, a lot of normal
record shops stock them, and even if they don't, people can order them through the record
shops. They're not banned over there, as a matter of fact they are not actually banned over
here either, the newspapers say that they are, so all the shops won't stock them We can't
really win either way. Axel Rose from "Guns and Roses" can get away with saying that
naughty N word, because he's a druggie and has got a black in the band, but I can't risk
saying that N word, unless of course I smoke a joint at gigs and get a rasta bass player, then
it's ok. That's how fucked up and hypocritical everything is.
CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TROUBLE YOU HAVE HAD
RECENTLY WITH THE POLICE IN YOUR AREA ?
Well basically all that is, we were doing regular gigs around here, getting increasing
audiences, getting a lot of locals interested, so the police firstly tried to stop the gigs, which
they managed up to a certain extent by threatening the governors of the pubs with their
licences. Then we were rehearsing at a pub at dinner times, and people used to come in on
their dinner break to watch, so the police spoke to the governor of the pub and said that they
are allowed to rehearse but they must shut the doors because no-one is allowed to listen to
them Then after a while of rehearsing behind closed doors they decided that we wouldn't do
it any more, and then more recently they have tried to stop me and a friend from even
drinking in the pubs, but they didn't really get away with that, and we, due to the governors
sticking up for us, the police have let that one drop for the moment, so we are not banned
from drinking anywhere yet.
WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO RECORD UNDER KLANSMEN, IAN STUART AND
WHITE DIAMOND, RATHER THAN USE THIS MATERIAL FOR SKREWDRIVER ?
The fact is that I just write so many different songs and theyjust wouldn't be used otherwise.
Plus the fact that the Klansmen songs are in more of a Rock and Roll vain and wouldn't really
suit Skrewdriver. Also with the Klansmen it has brought in a lot of rockabillies into the Blood
& Honour movement, which is a good thing. Hopefully the White Diamond will do the same
thing with a few bikers. Basically we are just spreading our wings and trying to appeal to
everybody, not just skinheads.
WHAT HAS BEEN THE RESPONSE TO THE WHITE DIAMOND LP ?
Well, it hasn't been out that long, but the people that I have spoken to about it seem to like it.
As far as I'm concerned the guitar could have been a little bit louder and the vocals a little
quieter. The original mix of it, the guitar was too loud and you couldn't hear the vocals, so we
took it back to be remixed and it went the other way around.
IS THERE GOING TO BE ANOTHER WHITE DIAMOND LP ?
Oh yeah, definitely.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS FOR THE KLANSMEN TO PLAY LIVE ?
I haven't got any plans at the moment, but we could well do one day. There's been plenty of
people asking if we would. We have had several requests from Germany for the Klansmen to
play over there. We normally do a couple of Klansmen songs at most Skrewdriver gigs
anyway. The Klansmen haven't actually been a steady line up anyway, we tend to use
musicians from other bands. It' s good for them, as they get to record, which a lot of bands
don't manage to do, and it also gets more people inolved in our cause. The first LP we used
musicians from Demented Are Go, the second was with The Krewmen and the third was from
some local rock band from around this area.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST GETTING INTO
NATIONALISM, BUT ARE PUZZLED BY THE WAY THAT THE AUTHORITIES ARE
HARASSING THEM?
I think that you've got to expect it, it's the way that the people above run things. You've got
to be very dedicated to become a nationalist. It is better to educate people at a younger age,
some of the old parties used to leaflet schools. We must use every way that we can to get our
message across, through music, leafleting houses, town centres, postering, we must use every
way we can. The odds are against us, but it is important.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON RELIGION ?
I don't really belive in it, I don't go to church or anything. I think that my religion is my race.
I've got nothing against Christians or Odinists, but I think that Christianity is being pushed
into being very weak at the moment. I've lost a lot of respect for the Christians, but hopefully
they'll rise up one day and become powerful as they once were. I agree with all of the Norse
God mythology, and there is something in it, but personally I'mjust fighting for my race and
I'll work with all of these people so long as they've got the same views as I have.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE UNITY MOVEMENT AND THE RAVEN ?
Well I haven't even seen the Raven at all yet so I can't really comment on that, but I presume,
going by the name that it's anOdinist thing. Unity, when it first came out I wasn't so sure that
it was a good thing because I thought that it might be distracting from Blood & Honour a little
bit, but when it got off the ground, it was good. It worked alongside Blood & Ho no iff. It's a
good thing to have different organizations all working together, as long as there is no rivalry.
Kev Turner is a dedicated man, he's been in jail a lot of times, but he has never even
considered giving it all up. He's doing a great job up there and has quite a lot of influence.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE IMPRISONMENT OF TWO PEOPLE FOR
BASICALLY SELLING SKREWDRIVER MERCHANDISE ?
Well, it's just unvelievable, beingput away just for selling records. As far as I'm concerned
and as far as anybody I know is concerned, there has never been anything to say that you can't
sell records, whatever they were. I mean, there's bands going around singing songs about
killing God and loads of these anti- religion groups, they've all got a bit of stick, but there has
never actually been any courtcases trying to stop them selling records. Take American rapper
Ice T, some stores said that they wouldn' t stock it, but most stores do still stock it. It was all a
publicity stunt and has sold more records became of it. He's never been charged. Obviously
there is nothing wrong in singing about killing White people and police. No-one was ever
done by the law for selling Ice T records, and no-one has ever been arrested either. Our
records do not incite violence at all, our lyrics are basically about being proud of your White
race. If it's illegal to be proud of your race, why isn't it illegal to be proud to be Black, Asian
etc.?
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON WATERLOO (Skrewdriver's comeback gig in London
1992 - Club28 addition), AND IN PARTICULAR THE MASSIVE MEDIA COVERAGE
THAT IT ACHIEVED?
I except the sort of coverage that we got. It's obvious that you're never going to get anything
good said about you. It would have been nicer if a lot of the lads that came over from abroad
actually got to the gig. It made it a lot more awkward having so much pub licity about it in
advance. But in the end the gig went ahead, it was a good gig, everybody that made it there
enjoyed it. So basically it was a victory. But then again, I do think that it was a bit of a shame
that the police acted illegally again by shutting down a main line train station, to try and stop
people getting to the concert. They shouldn't have allowed a leftwing demonstration at the
station on the day because it was pretty obvious that they were only there to cause trouble.
The police knew that was the case but they never banned it. If the NF ever want to march, the
police ban it straight away because of the trouble it would cause. It's the same with the recent
Bloody Sunday IRA march, the IRA who kill British people were allowed to march while the
police did all they can to stop the people against the march by arresting 378 people. It seems
that to be proud to be British is a crime.
WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN UP TO SINCE THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE ?
We've played loads of gigs. We've got a new Skrewdriver LP written, we should be going in
to record within the next six to seven weeks. That should be out in 3 or 4 months then. Same
applies to the new Klansmen LP. White Diamond and Patriotic Ballads LP's should be
coming out within the next few weeks. The White Diamond LP is called "The Power And The
Glory", the Patriotic Ballads is called 'Patriotic Ballads II Our Time Will Come". I'm not too
sure what the Skrewdriver LP will be called. The Klansmen LP will be taking the theme of
the American civil war, although I'm not too sure exactly what it'll be called.
CHANGING THE SUBJECT SOMEWHAT, ARE YOU A FOOTBALL FAN ?
I used to play football when I was younger. I don't really want to go into football at all. If I
ever said that I supported a team, I think that you'll find that could cause problems. Football is
a very popular and passionate subject to many people. I've got to admit that I've never
supported a team seriously, but my favourite footballer is George Best. I watch it now and
again, but not a lot. I used to prefer playing it to watching it.
DO YOU PARTICIPATE OR WATCH ANY OTHER SPORTS ?
Notparticulary. Boxing is quite good. Rocky Marsiano was my favourite boxer, he was a
European that beat everybody in the world and always could have done. Alan Minter was
good, I liked him until he got beat by Marvin Hagler, and then I went off him.
YOU'VE RECENTLY GOT A FEW MORE TATTOOS, AFTER BEFNG SO LONG WITH
THE TWO, TELL US A BIT ABOUT THEM ?
I don't like being lop-sided, so I make sure that I've got one on each side. Every time that I
have one I have to get another one on the other side. I'll have a couple more on the back of
my arms and that'll be it. I won't get them sleeved. I wouldn't like to say who does mine, in
case he got attacked. Let's just say that it's a biker from the Midlands. Every single tattoo I've
got is of a political subject.
WHAT SORT OF READING MATERIAL ARE YOU INTO ?
Since I've been in prison I don't read anything, all I did in prison was read books and listen to
the radio and that's put me off. I used to read a lot ofbooks at one time. If I want to read a
newspaper, I read, would you believe, The Sun, they are the ones who done a full page story
on me the last time I was in prison. The only reason I read the the Sun is because I do the
crossword and because it's not labour. But I don't really take any of what's in it seriously, it's
as much crap as the others. In the past I've read a lot of David Irvings books, they're very
good, but I reckon that my favourite author has got to be Tolkien, The Lord Of The Rings is
the best book that I've ever read. I've read it over ten times.
WHAT ABOUT THE FANTASY BOOK THAT YOU ONCE WROTE ?
I've lent it to so many different people that I can't get it back, so I can't write it out again.
Unless I re- wrote it all, but I can't even remember most of it. It was basically a fantasy story
about a land that was being invaded, all of the tribes fought against each other, but in the end
they all united to fight the invaders. I was hoping to publish it one day, but I lent it out to so
many people that I've lost track of where it is. We could even have done a concept LP to go
with it. The book was called The New Dawn.
TELL US YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF NICKY CRANE, ONCE A
CLOSE FRIEND, AND THEN TURNED OUT TO BE A GAY.
I feel more betrayed by him than probably anybody else, because he was the head of our
security. I actually used to stick up for him when people used to say that he was a queer,
because he convinced me that he wasn't. I always used to ask him why he worked at these gay
clubs, telling him that he'd get a bad name. He used to say that it was the security firm that he
used to work with, that they used to give him the jobs there. I accepted him at face value, as
he was a nationalist. I was fooled the same as everybody else. Perhaps more than everybody
else. I felt I was betrayed by him and I want nothing to do with him whatsoever. He's dug his
own grave as far as I'm concerned. He has actually been in touch with me after the program
was aired, he wanted to assure me that he wouldn't sell out the nationalist cause, which I
wouldn't expect him to do anyway, considering that he went through so many things for
nationalism. It's a big shame that he turned out to be a homosexual because he could have
been a good nationalist. It just goes to show that nationalism and homosexuality do not fit in
together, because Nationalism is a true cause and homosexuality is a perversion. Nicky Crane
left, and I think that it was the best thing he could have done, but he should have left a hell of
a lot earlier. He was living a lie for all of them years. I've got no respect for the bloke
anymore. (Bottomboy Crane died of an aids related disease in december 1993 Rot in peace -
Club28 addition)
WHAT CAN YOU ENVISION YOURSELF DOING IN 5 OR 10 YEARS TIME ?
Probably being in prison. They're bringing in so many new laws in this country. Or dead !
IF rf C AME TO THE CRUNCH, AND THE LAWS WERE REALLY STRICT, WHAT
WOULD YOU DO, WOULD YOU CHANGE ALL OF YOUR LYRICS, OR CARRY ON
REGARDLESS ?
I would probably change all of the lyrics. Change them completely. In the end I'd probably do
songs about white rats and black rats, and see if they can change things about that. I mean,
where is all this going to end ? Alright you can sing about the dove and the crow, so the
dove's going to have to win a fight in the end instead of being the bird of peace. In the end it's
going to get to the stage where you're going to have to sing like that to get a song out.
Everyone's still going to know what you mean. They're making it so pathetic now.
SO WHAT WILL STOP YOU CARRYING ON ?
Either put me in prison or kill me, there's no other way that I'm going to give up.
IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE DONE FN THE PAST THAT YOU COULD
CHANGE NOW, WHAT WOULD THAT BE ?
Nothing, there's nothing that I would have changed, nothing at all. Obviously I would like to
have made a lot of money and been on Top Of The Pops and all that, what other person who's
been in a band wouldn't ? But I'm singing the wrong sort of lyrics aren't I ? I would never
changed my songs just for the fame, though. There has never been any major thing that I
regret, maybe a few minor things, nothing to do with politics though except I should have
joined this and I shouldn't have joined that.
RUMOURS ARE RIFE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO MOVE OVER TO GERMANY TO
LIVE, IS THERE ANY TRUTH FN THAT ?
No, that's a load of rubbish. It's not even crossed my mind. I like Germany though.
IF rf C AME TO A STAGE WHERE YOU HAD TO MOVE OUT OF ENGLAND, WHICH
COUNTRY WOULD YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE IN ?
It'd have to be a country where you wouldn't get so much hassle being a nationalist, and I
think that at the moment Germany is far from that. I'd probably go somewhere like Antwerp
in Belgium. It's a nice city, there is a hell of a lot of Vlaams Blok MPs in the Antwerp city
itself. It's probably the most right wing city in Europe at the moment.
YOU ARE QUITE A WELL TRAVELLED MAN BECAUSE OF MANY EUROPEAN
GIGS WITH SKREWDRIVER, WHERE ARE YOUR FAVOURITE PLACES ?
I loved Sweden, the country is brilliant. Germany is brilliant.
WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE BAND AT THE MOMENT ?
Manowar, I change my opinion now again. But it's them at the moment. I have always liked
the Rolling Stones, I like the Almighty, they're quite a new band. AC/DC I've always liked.
CHANGING THE SUBJECT ONCE AGAFN, BACK FN THE 1977 DAYS,
SKREWDRIVER SOUND WAS VERY DIEFERENT TO NOW. WHAT WERE YOUR
INFLUENCES BACK THEN ?
I had a lot of favourite bands before the punk bands came along. I saw the Sex Pistols' first
gig in the north in Manchester. I thought they were brilliant. But we still weren't influenced
by them, Skrewdriver were at that time still called Tumbling Dice and we used to cover Who,
Rolling Stones, Zeppelin, Deep Purple and all of the rock type numbers. Then we started to
play the punkier stuff I couldn't play guitar at that time so our guitarist wrote most of the
songs. I started to learn to play guitar about then, obviously you get better as you go along.
SUGGSY WAS YOUR ROADIE BACK IN 1978, 1 KNOW YOU DON'T KEEP IN
TOUCH, BUT DID YOU WATCH THE MASSIVE MADNESS COMEBACK GIG ON
TELI OVER CHRISTMAS ?
No, I'm not interested. I think that they're a crap band. I can't stand that sort of music. I like
heavy rock music. Madness were the best of those type of bands, they were the only White
one, and a lot of their fans were rightwing. They chose to sell out for money. We never did
that. It was the same with Sham 69. 1 remember seeing Sham 69 playing to 7 people down the
Roxy, I enjoyed them, they were great. Now Jimmy Pursey hangs around with Rastas and all
sorts. He's totally gone in the head. He's never been a great singer, he had a bit of a stage
presence cos people identified with him. The thing about all that is that I saw Jimmy Pursey
turn up at gigs wearing baseball boots, change into DMs for the gig, then change back into
baseball boots after the gig. The geezer has never been a skinhead, he sings about it but he's
never been one. There was only one skinhead in that band ever, and that was their first bass
player, Alby. He was the only skinhead that's ever been in Sham 69.
YOU PLAYED WITH A LOT OF BANDS THAT BECAME BIG NAMES, WERE YOU
EVER GOOD FRIENDS WITH THESE NOW BIG NAMES ?
We played with Motorhead, this was a lot later, they were really decent blokes. We would
always have a drink with the other bands' members if we were at one of their gigs. We often
had drinks with Jimmy Pursey and the likes. One person that we were very good mates with
was Stick Smith, he was in a band called Shag Nasty, who used to support us all of the time. I
used to let them support us mainly because their guitarist looked like Keith Richards!
Anyway, he went on to play for X-Ray Spex, we had a few arguments about it, but he was a
decent sort of bloke. When we played with the Police we had a drink and chat with S ting, they
borrowed our PA at that gig. The Damned were really good blokes, we supported them a lot.
MUSICALLY, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THE 1977 DAYS TO BE BETTER AS FAR AS
THE ATMOSPHERE WAS CONCERNED ?
When Punk started in London it was great atmosphere. It was a new thing, it was shit hot. We
used to go to a club every night, get in free because we were in a band. It was really a good
time to be there. We didn't get hardly any hassle except perhaps a little bit of the teds. I used
to get on with most of the teds anyway, especially when we turned skinhead, when we were
punks they used to hate us, though.
YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF COVER VERSIONS PN THE PAST, WHAT MAKES YOU
DECIDE TO DO A COVER VERSION, IS IT THE GROUP, THE LYRICS OR THE
TUNE?
All of those. I wouldn't do a cover version from a band that I didn't like. Obviously the lyrics
mean a lot but I do normally change them slightly to go with what I'm singing about. We've
thought about doing an LP with all cover versions from nationalist bands songs, we were
going to do Brutal Attacks "Ocean Of Warriors" and 'For You" by Public Enemy, amongst
others, but nothing's ever came of it, I'd like to do somehting like that one day, though.
WHAT DO YOU THPNK ABOUT BRUTAL ATTACK REFORMING ?
The more nationalist bands the better, they were always a good band, they were always
popular. If they get back together that's great, it's an extra band. Ken is a good frontman, and
now they're going to be an additional band to the Blood & Honour circuit.
IT'S BEEN SAID THAT YOU PERSONALLY ARE PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST
INFLUENTIAL SKINHEADS IN THE WORLD, PERHAPS MORE SO ABROAD, WHAT
DO YOU THINK OF THAT ?
I think that it's because Skrewdriver have been going since 1977. We are the longest running
skinhead band. I never really think about it to be honest. Sometimes it seems like that abroad,
when there are hundreds of skinheads queuing up to speak to me, because they've heard about
things I've done, and they've got all of your records. It mainly brings out to me how
important the whole movement really is.
TELL US ABOUT SKREWDRIVER. I'M SURE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE LOST
TOUCH WITH WHO'S PN THE BAND NOW.
Stigger is the guitarist, he's been in for quite a while now, he's recorded both of the Patriotic
Ballads albums, he's also played guitar on The Strong Survive, and my last solo LP Patriot.
Sickly John came from Lionheart and he's been on bass since The Strong Survive. We've got
a new drummer now, Mushy, he used to play for punk band Resistance 77.
WHAT'S YOUR ANSWER TO THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT YOU ARE ONLY TN IT
FOR THE MONEY?
If I didn't belive in what I believe in I would go to the newspapers and deny all of the stuff
they put in about me. I could just as easily get out of it. If I went to the press and told them
that I've changed my ways I could be on top of the pops. I could make a hell of a lot of money
that way. If I was only in it for the money I wouldn't be as dedicated as I am to the nationalist
cause. I would have sold out years ago.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY ?
I've always thought that the Royal family should be kept as a British tradition, and I never
think that they should ever of had a political voice. They're a hell of a tourist business,
they've always been a British tradition. I never think that we should get rid of the Royal
family. It's something that people always think about when they think of Britain. They think
of the Royal Family when they hear about Britain. It seems to me that most of the people that
want to destroy the Royal family are either Irish or commies. I don't want to destroy them, but
I wouldn't let people like Prince Charles be telling the people what they ought to do. My
personal opinion is that it would be better to have Prince Andrew as the King rather than
Prince Charles. At least Prince Andrew fought for his country. We should get rid of a lot of
the cling-ons. I feel strongly that we can't get rid of the Royal Family. It's always been
something special about Britain.
WHEN YOU WERE AT SCHOOL, YOU OBVIOUSLY NEVER EVEN IMAGINED HOW
YOU'D END UP, WHAT WERE YOUR AMBITIONS, WHAT SORT OF CAREER WERE
YOU TRAINING FOR ?
When I first left school I was an apprentice coach trimmer, I left that because it was boring.
After that I was a car washer, then I was a civil servant. I worked as a clerical assistant at the
Premium Bonds. I left there after a couple of years and that's when I went to London. I've got
a couple of O Levels and that's about it. The first band, Tumbling Dice, started about a year
after I left school.
DID YOU EVER IMAGINE AT THAT TIME THAT YOU' D BE S TILL DOING IT NO W ?
I didn't expect to be still doing it now, although I'm very glad that I am. I think that if I'd
been just playing music like when we first got the contract, I don't think we would have been
doing it now. It was only when I became politically aware that's really kept me going. Bands
like Sham 69 who toed the line, basically ran out of things to sing about. But we can sing
about normal life and politics, and the way that affects us. That's probably why we're still
going. Plus the fact that they're so hard to stop us, that makes me think, well, fuck them
WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU BEING A SKINHEAD ?
Although it's a bit of a cliche, it is a way of life. I don't actually go around saying to myself
"I 'ma skinhead". But I've been one since 1977, and before that I was one the first time
around in 1971 when I was at school I do believe in what the rightwing skinheads have got to
say, and on and off due to various reasons, since 1977, I've been one. But that doesn't mean
to say that everyone who comes to our gigs has to be one. We get a complete mixed audience.
DO YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS ?
No, not really, although I didn't like being in jail much. But that wouldn't stop me defending
myself from a gang ofb lacks again if I had to. But no, I've no real regrets.
IAN STUART interview from Polish "Odlam Skiny" skinzine
1992
1. Some words about yourself ?
1: At the moment I am working on a lot of new ideas and new records, which is taking up a
lot of time. We are only doing a few big gigs so we can work more on records for a few
months, as the band has only just got out of prison in Germany, we have a lot of catching up
to do.
2. Your relation to Skinhead movement ?
2: 1 think the Skinhead movement is at it's best for a long time, all over the White world
Skinheads and the White youth are fighting for their Race and National Socialism is growing
and on the move. Skinheads need to unite and make more contact with others in Europe and
forget about what team you support or what area you come from as we must fight as one.
3. What bands are you listening often to ?
3: 1 listen to a lot of bands, political and non-political rock bands, I don't speak any other
language so it is mainly English singing bands eg. No Remorse, Manowar, Motorhead,
Squadron and Battle Zone.
4. On "Blood & Honour" record was a number "Poland". What influenced you to write
it?
4: We done 'Poland" to let the people know about some of the evil things that the commies
were doing to the Polish people, and to let the people of Poland know, that some people are
supporting the fight against the reds, and will keep on fighting until the red beast is dead.
5. Some words about a ne w Skrewdriver record ?
5: Skrewdriver has a lot of new records coming out, the newest being "Freedom, What
Freedom", it is mostly about the freedomof speech in England / Europe and how we never get
any.
6. Your opinions about changes in East Europe ?
6: East Europe is changing very fast, but this may be too fast as the people are not used to
change. I think the Nationalist movement in the East is getting stronger but so is the antinazi
group and jews. So we must be careful of the snake with two heads : communism and
capitalism. Capitalism is as bad as communism, but saying this, there are a lot of good hard
fighting Nationalists willing not to let it take over.
7. You are playing in some bands - which are you holding dear ?
7: 1 play in a few bands because I write so much material with different styles, I play in "The
Klansmen", "White Diamond", "Skrewdriver" and also solo "Ian Stuart and Rough Justice"
are all political in their own style. I still enjoy playing in Skrewdriver the best and think I
always will.
8. What do you think about Polish Skinheads stage ?
8: Poland has gone through a lot in a very few years, we in Skrewdriver respect the Skinheads
in Poland for fighting for their land and wish them all the luck in the world.
9. Plans for the future ?
9: Our plans for the future are to play to our fans as much as we can in more counties around
the White world and to carry on the fight for White Power.
10. Final words ?
10: Thanks for giving me time to speak to the Polish White Youth. Keep on fighting for what
you believe in and never stop fighting for our one dream.. WHITE POWER!
BETTER OF^CRA2/
This interview gives an Inside glimps .
Skrewdrivers original drummer John "Grinny"
Grinton, into the beginnings of what turned
into the greatest racist bands to come out
"Ws punk seen -
{conducted in October 2003)
1: Here's a question you must get tired of. How did you get your nickname? Do people
still use it?
1: My nickname "Grinny" comes from my surname, Grinton. I have been called Grinny for as
long as I can remember, and yes people still call me that all the time.
2: Was the first band you were in "Warlock" (a teenage rock band Grinny was in just prior to
Tumbling Dice who became Skrewdriver) or did you play music before then?
2: The first actual band I played in was Warlock. But before that I played at hotel, clubs and
pubs, usually with just a keyboard player. We would usually play the popular tunes of the day
and old stuff like waltzes and quicksteps. This obviously was not the thing I wanted to do, but
it paid well and gave me experience.
3: How did Tumbling Dice come to exist? I heard you had a deal with Chiswick under this
name but it fell through before the band could record anything.
3: Tumbling Dice came out of the remains of Warlock, while Warlock were playing. Ian had
asked me to ask Phil Walmsley, the Warlock guitarist, if he would teach him guitar. So Phil
was teaching Ian, who was writing songs at the time. Ian in turn got Kev and Sean McKay,
twins who had been friends for years, to learn guitar. They were both good pianists and
picked up guitar quite quickly.
When Warlock split up in 1975 it was logical for Ian to ask if me and Phil would join him,
Kev and Sean to make a band. We agreed and started to rehearse at Ian's Dad's factory every
Saturday and Sunday afternoon. Tumbling Dice did get a chance to record with Chiswick. I
continued to play with in Tumbling Dice for about seven months then I had a break up with a
girlfriend and hit the bottle, which ended up with me getting sacked and being replaced by a
guy named Steve Gaulter. I went back to occasional gigs with Warlock, with a new guitarist,
Huw Melt.
Ian continued working hard for Tumbling Dice, rehearsing, sending tapes to record company's
etc. He got them regular gigs on the Northern circuit with an agency. Finally, great joy, the
chance of a record deal with Chiswick. Ian got the band together and proudly told them they
had a record deal with Chiswick and would have to move to London. When the band heard
this Sean said "I'm not moving to London, I'm going to University". Then Steve said he would
not move because he had a job and a girlfriend. Ian went mad and broke up the band. Not
much point having a band that does not want to leave home. Ian came round to my house the
next day and said "Them wankers had a record deal would not move to London so I have
broke up the band". Then he said to me "You would have gone, wouldn't you?" and I said
"Yes, course I would".
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4: Where did you know the rest of the band from, as you didn't go to Baines Grammar with
them?
4: 1 knew Ian from the age of one since he was my next door neighbor. I knew Kev from the
age of six as we all went to the local Carleton C of E primary school (pre-eleven years). At
eleven you took an exam the eleven plus. If you passed you went to the local grammar school
"Baines". If you failed, as I did, you went to the Hodgson High School, which was mixed.
They were both in the town of Poulton-le-Fylde, about a mile and a half apart. So most of the
pupils at the schools knew each other. I met Phil when I was about thirteen when we played
football against each other.
5: Is it true the band had no name when you sent your punk demo to Chis wick and that
the label named you?
5: We didn't have a name when we sent the demo. I'm not too sure if we had a name when we
played our first gig as a punk band at Manchester Polytechnic in January 77 supporting
LITTLE BOB STORY, another Chis wick band from France. I think we got the name off a list
of possibles that Chiswick supplied. The boss of Chiswick, Ted Carroll, wanted to call us
"The Nervous Wrecks". We didn't like that, but we settled on Skrewdriver.
6: Was the band a "democratic" organization or as frontman did Ian have the most say?
6: Ian, as leader, had almost all the say. There are many stories of things photographers,
producers and managers wanted us to do but. . .Ian would not do some of them all down to
cool and street cred. Ian could most certainly be stubborn when he wanted to be.
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7: Do you recall your first few gigs as Skrewdriver?
7: Yes, I remember the first gigs. The first, as I said, was at Manchester Polytechnic. The first
gig in London was at The Roxy in about March of '77, supporting JOHNNY MOPED. I
remember this gig well. The day before the gig on a Friday I was at work as a sheetmetal
worker, when I cut my hand on a piece of metaL I had to go to the hospital and had four
stitches put in the wound, which was across the palm of my right hand. As soon as I got home
Ian came running round and said: "Shit, what have you done to your hand?" I told him I'd cut
it. He said:" We've got a gig tomorrow at The Roxy". I said: "Don't worry, I'll tape it up".
So we hired a van, loaded it with equipment and off we went to London in good spirits.
Trouble was, when we got to about 40 mph the drive shaft on the van started squeaking loudly
so it drove us mad all the way there.
The gig went well and I got my minute of fame by getting my picture in New Musical
Express. The picture was taken in the grotty dressing room with me all sweaty and the
drumstick taped into my hand. The picture had the headline "Whose Skrewing you, John? "
8: Famously, some Teds attacked you guys after a gig and you lost some teeth. Did you
ever get
revenge? Was the Punk vs. Ted rivalry as bad as some people say it was?
8: Yes, we had a punch up with the Teds after a gig at the "Railway" in Putney. We were
support to THE POLICE before they were famous, Sting etcetera, not the law. All night at the
gig people were talking about the Teds coming down from a nearby Ted gig featuring
SHAKING STEVEN & THE SUNSETS. Near the end of the night punks and THE POLICE
began to disappear rather quickly. We hung about packing away gear. We started loading the
van up when we heard this noise, I looked up and there was this gang of about twenty Teds
coming towards us shouting, "Get the bastards!"
I was at the back of the van, outside it with the back doors open. I thought, well, I'm not going
to run as I grabbed a cymbal stand and decided to battle it out. I saw one Ted approach and I
swung the stand at him.
I caught him somewhere high on the arm. But next thing I knew I was surrounded by Teds,
one of thempicked up a mic stand--It was one of those heavy ones with the cast iron feet--and
wham! Straight in the mouth. I saw flashes and stars and ended on the floor in the middle of
the road. My head was spinning and everything was going in and out of focus. I could not
pick myself up. Next thing I remember was Police and Ambulance men picking me up and
putting me in an ambulance. I was taken to Queen Mary Hospital in Roehampton where I had
36 stitches put in my mouth. Two of my teeth had been knocked straight out, never to be
found again. Revenge came quickly, though not from me. I was patched up and leaving the
hospital with Effie, our manager at the time, when I saw a Teddy Boy coming in on a
stretcher with facial wounds. Apparently, after I had been taken to the hospital, the band all
got back in the van, minus it's windows. Kev was driving, Ian was next to him in front, then
there was Phil and Kev's brother Sean, who had come down from Blackpool to see the gig. As
they were driving back Ian spotted a group of Teds walking on the pavement towards the van.
He told Kev to get close to the pavement and then put his foot down. The van had sliding
doors, so as they got near, Ian slid open the doors and went whack! with a mic stand.
A couple of things came out of this. The van was later nicked in Covent Garden with all the
gear in. And Ian's constant piss-take out of Phil for running away and hiding behind some
dustbins when we were attacked. Phil, whose not used stage name was "Ronnie Volume" had
to listen to Ian playing the guitar and singing the song "Working Class Hero" by John Lennon.
The words became "Ronnie, Ron runaway, where have you been, hiding behind the bins from
the Teddy boy's boots".
Also, a couple of days after the attack we were interviewed by Janet Street Porter for a TV
program The interview went along the lines of a rant from Ian about what the punks were
going to do to the Teds. The interview was shown a few months later, when all the trouble
had calmed down (the interview in question can be seen on AinaSkins' Skrewdriver
History DVD - Club28 remark) . This set it all off again and Skrewdriver became Public
Enemy #1. The punk vs. Ted rivalry could be bad if you were in the wrong place at the wrong
time. There was definitely trouble between the two.
9: Why did you switch to the skinhead image? Was it important to you or just something
you felt like doing?
9: All of us had grown up with the skinhead, suedehead and bootboy fashions of the early
70's. I decided in 1977 that I had always been happier with the skinhead thing than the punk
thing. So I got my haircut, boots, Levi jeans and jacket and away I went. Later, when Ian saw
me--this was the time between Phil leaving and Ronnie joining --he decided the band should
become a skinhead band. Ian was always well into the skinhead thing, he loved the violence.
Kev was not too keen but went along with it.
10: What was your favorite Skrewdriver song of the time? How did you feel about the
quality of your recorded product? Did you feel "All Skre wed Up" and the two singles
were good representations of the band?
10: My favorite Skrewdriver song, and funny enough it is my two daughters favorite Hannah
16 and Rebecca 12, is "Too Much Confusion". All of the band thought that "All Skrewed Up"
could have been done better. It was commonly thought that Chiswick always did things on the
cheap as far as recording, advertising, etc. went. The album was recorded over a few days, it
is virtually live, there were just a few overdubs on vocals and guitar. Trouble was all the
tracks were over in 2-3 minutes. I'm no technician, I don't know why the album came out at
45 rpm The songs on it were what we played live, so it was a good representation of the
band. But we all felt the sound was a little tinny.
11: What was your relationship with the band like? Did you guys all hang out together or go
your separate ways offstage?
11: The relationship with the band was always good. Me and Ian and Kev had all grown up
together, been through school, cub scouts, holidays, parties, piss up, girlfriends and fights
together. Life was really one big
piss take.
12: Did you have any political views at the time? Chiswick head Roger Armstrong has
mentioned that you came from a "Northern Socialist" background.
12: The political thing really did not come to the front until probably about 1979. Up until
then Ian had always held racist views although he did not discover the National Front (NF)
until maybe '79 or '80. That was when I heard of the NF. My family has always been
interested in politics. My dad stood for Labour in local elections, I used to help on these as I
grew up with politics. I voted for them in 1979 in the general election when they lost. Then I
started to look closely at the party and I realized that their views did not match mine. So in
1980 I went in a different direction for politics. I used to talk to Roger and he was a Labour
supporter. But I think he got this romantic idea that all Northern bands were working class,
flat capped whippet owning Labour supporters. This just was not true.
13: The band later reverted back to a punky image again. Did all this changing around
annoy you? And here's a frivolous question: did you prefer one look to the other?
13: The band did change image, but I think we were always closest to the skinhead thing. A
lot of the reason for the change was that as a skinhead band we found it impossible to get
gigs, because of the violence. We enjoyed the atmosphere, but we definitely lost tours and
gigs because of the image.
14: Kev and Ian later formed a Manchester version of the band. Were you any part of
that?
14: Yes, I played in that band, I can only remember doing one gig. MOTORHEAD at Queen
Marys Hall in Blackburn. We lived in a rented house in Longsight, Manchester. I think this
line-up was with Phil back and Chris Cumming joining in on guitar. That was the best line up
we had. Ian wrote some good songs and we made some tapes but Chiswick did not like the
change of direction. (Around this period the band recorded the single "Built Up, Knocked
Down "for TJM which was to be their last material until the NF era of the '80's.)
15: After the band split did you keep up with Punk at all? Did you listen to the later Oi
bands, many of which claimed you as an influence?
15: Yes, I have always followed new music and I listened to the Oi! bands. I have quite a lot
of tapes and CD's of Nationalist bands. They are very good. My favourite Nationalist band is
NO REMORSE, I love the track "The Winning Hand".
16: When Ian reformed the band in London, did he invite you? Were you annoyed that
he used the name again? How about the other members like Phil, Kev and Ron?
16: When Ian reformed Skrewdriver, I was glad he had. I saw Ian regularly and knew his
plans. I would have liked to join him but I had a steady job and was engaged, so it was not
practical at the time. Kev had a successful glass business and we did not know where Phil
was. Ian always kept in touch, he used to send me CD's and t-shirts. Whenever he came home
we would visit and tell me what was going on with the band.
17: Did it bother you that the new version kept the name but became NF involved and
political?
17: No. It didn't bother me at all. Me and Ian both became members of the NF in 1980. The
trouble was again the bad publicity and being unable to get gigs. But Ian made his decision to
go political and it was what hebelieved in right until the end.
18: Did you keep in touch with Ian? Did you know any of the line-up besides him?
18: Yes, we kept in touch. I last saw him on his last visit home. He came around and I had a
wife and two daughters by then. He told me all about the band and going to prison and what it
was like in Heanor. I have met and seen perform "Stigger" the guitarist in the last line up of
Skrewdriver.He's very good, and still making good music.
19: What was Ian Stuart really like? Did politics have any effect on your friendships in
the band?
19: What was Ian really like. Hell! I could write a book on Ian. There are many stories
connected with Ian coupled with the fact that we grew up together. Ian was funny to be
around, he as a piss taker. Where we lived, even now, people who knew Ian nearly all had
nicknames that have stuck, that were made up by Ian.
He was always very focused on on what he was doing. And anyone who has ever met him
will tell you that he could talk anyone round to his point of view. He was definitely
charismatic and once you met him you didn't forget him. There is a good book about Ian
called "Nazi Rock Star" by Paul London, which I helped with, and also one more in the
pipeline. As a group we usually saw eye to eye. Ian and Phil had a good bust up about who
was credited with writing material for "All Skrewed Up". Also Kev, or more so his girlfriend,
did not like the idea of turning skinhead. "You look ridiculous" was his girlfriend Kathy's
comment. Politically, Ken, Phil and Ronnie were never really interested. But me and Ian
were. It never affected our friendships. But it did stop Skrewdriver from making it on a
commercial level.
20: Earlier you mentioned your daughters. Ever let them listed to the old records? Do
they like them? Do they like punk? Do you ever see young punks or skinheads and feel
like telling them the old war stories. Ever run into anyone from the band?
20: My daughters both listen to Skrewdriver and like punk. They laugh at the old pictures of
the band but are very proud of the fact their dad was in a band, especially at the moment as
there seems to be a lot of interest in the band. I do get to see a lot of young people through my
daughters and there is a lot of interest. I see Ronnie quite a bit, he still lives locally. KevI
used to see but he has now moved to Canada where his brother has lived for years. I still see
his Mum and Dad. Phil I have not seen for years, but I have heard he lives in Manchester and
is still playing the guitar in a good Blues band.
21: Are you surprised at how sought after and expensive the Chiswick records are these
days?
Do people approach you about the band? Does anyone give you any problems about it
because
of the later activities of the band?
21: Yes, I am surprised at how sought after Skrewdriver things are. I have just been sent a
good new t- shirt of
"Antisocial" and some bootleg tapes of Skrewdriver gigs from a guy named Sean from Dunn
Loring, VA.
He also sent me a CD of his band, THE SUSPECTS, which is good. People still approach me
about the
band. I never have had any problems, though of course Ian had plenty. Ending up in jail and
finally having to leave London and move to Heanor because of the constant trouble.
I meet Skrewdriver fans at the "Red, White & Blue" festival that the BNP (British National
Party) annual get together at Clitheroe in Lancashire. While I was there I met loads of fans
and they told me that there were tribute concerts to Ian, usually near the anniversary of his
death. Also, the main band at the event played "Too Much Confusion" and "Antisocial" and
played them very well.
Srlnny A ka
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22: If you could have done something differently, would you have? Famous last words or
clos ing co mme nts ?
22: 1 have enjoyed doing this and I am glad that there is still interest. I hope it has been of
some help.
I often wonder that if we had stayed a punk band, and Phil would not have left after the album
was released. With good publicity fromChiswick could we have made it as a mainstream
punk band? But, on the other hand, Skrewdriver are known for what they did so I am happy
with that. Also, I should have ducked quicker and saved my teeth in Putney!
Interview with Ian from "English Rose" skinzine 1984:
With the release of 3 singles, a track on an E.P., and a new album. What can we expect
musically from Skrewdriver in the future?
Ian: We are recording two tracks entitled "Tearing down the wall" and "Don't let them pull
you down" for a new White Noise LP which will feature 10 bands, also we are soon to start
recording a new LP for the German record company.
What are your views on fanzines like "Hard As Nails" which constantly slag bands like
yourself down, but has the r3dskins splatered all over it?
Ian: I've never heard of "Hard As Nails" but it sounds like a typical left-wing propaganda.
We read about people like Joe Pearce, Ian Anderson and many other people getting hounded
by the police, has the band experienced any hassle of the law?
Ian: We get the usual hollow threats of the r3ds, but we never take any notice of these, the
police on the other hand have turned people back onto trains and and arrested many people to
stop them getting to gigs.
This is becoming increasingly worse as in east ham the other week they turned 200 people
back onto the trains and shut down 2 tube stations, and also turned people off buses.
We'd like to thank everybody who didn't give up and managed to get to the gig to make it a
success.
At the moment the R. A.C. is getting bigger and better, how do you see it expanding?
Ian: This year there will be two summer festivals so there will be no chance of police or r3d
interference.
Also there will be more regular gigs as well as several European RA.C. gigs this year.
What do you feel when you read in shit like Sounds how good the r3dskins are, and saying
how shit you are?
Ian: We expect it, due to them being pathetic little mummys boy r3ds writing for the music
press.
It makes you laugh really when these morons, who consider themselves to be real working
class heroes, are working for big capitalist concerns who own the music papers, bushell now
also writes for the sun.
They are all money grabbing hypocrites.
There are some skinheads turning casual and listening to body-popping music. What do you
think of this?
Ian: Skinheads who turn casual and still remain friends with their old skinhead mates are
alright so long as they keep their patriotic views as well, I can't stand the ones who grow their
hair and all of a sudden start slagging off other skinheads, and start haning round blacks.
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